The Quiet Force Behind Fire Safety in Construction | Mark Turnham

Fire safety can feel like another compliance cost for trades, construction and facilities leaders.

But when something goes wrong, the quality of your systems, records and maintenance can become the difference between confidence and catastrophe.

In this episode of Built. Trusted. Chosen., I speak with Mark Turnham from Virtue Fire Solutions about building a fire and essential safety services business around trust, service, and quiet competence. We talk about Mark’s background in the Royal Australian Navy, his years as a volunteer firefighter, starting a business during COVID, and why referrals have played such a major role in the growth of Virtue Fire Solutions.

You’ll take away:

• Why fire safety is about more than ticking compliance boxes
• How education builds trust before a client ever signs off on work
• Why “the quiet force behind fire safety” is such a strong brand position
• How years of doing the right thing can turn into future referrals
• Why helping people, answering the phone, and not burning bridges matters
• How to hire for attitude, communication and cultural fit in a trade business

Mark Turnham is Director of Virtue Fire Solutions, a Mornington-based fire protection and essential safety services business. With a background as a Royal Australian Navy marine technician, licensed fire sprinkler fitter, facilities manager and long-serving volunteer firefighter, Mark brings practical field experience and a strong service mindset to fire safety.

 Website: https://virtuefiresolutions.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/mark-turnham-719a13117
Company LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/company/virtuefire

I’m Wes Towers from Uplift 360, and I help trades and construction companies be built, trusted, and chosen online through high-performing websites and Search Everywhere Optimisation. Built. Trusted. Chosen. is the podcast for leaders and marketers in trades and construction who want to grow with more clarity, credibility and trust.

Learn more: https://uplift360.com.au/

Want to be a guest on Built. Trusted. Chosen.? Book here: https://uplift360.com.au/built-trusted-chosen-podcast-guest-booking/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Build, Trusted, Chosen, the podcast for leaders and marketers in trades and construction. Hosted by Wiz Towers from Uplift 360.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Okay, hi there, Mark. It's fantastic to have you on the show today. And it was good to meet you in person uh maybe a month or two ago uh now and uh find out a little bit what you're up to. So sounds like a fascinating business you're you're working in and a great way in which you you go to market. So I'm really curious to unpack some of those things uh as well, but maybe just to set the foundation if you can tell people who you are and and what you do.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Um yeah, so Mark from Virtue Fire Solutions, so we're uh um yeah, a full suite of like comprehensive maintenance on all your fire and essential services. So pretty much anything on an occupancy permit we can maintain. So um yeah, when I uh I left school at 17 at the middle of year year 11, I think it was, um joined the Navy, so I spent eight years in the Royal Australian Navy as a marine technician, and then um yeah, when I got out of there, did my trade in fire sprinkler fitting and um yeah, been in the industry, spent some time as a asset and facilities major as well. Um and then got back into the fire game again and um that's something I'm very passionate about. Um also been a volunteer fiery for the last uh nearly 20 years now, 20 years in September. Wow. So um pretty much my whole life's about the fire industry. Trying to prevent them, or if I'm not preventing them, I'm putting them out.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, that's brilliant. And I suppose that it lends itself to a couple of different things. So the um working in the in the Navy and also the volunteer fire firefighting that you've done for 20 years, 20 plus years, um, there's that aspect of community and service. Um, do you think those set you up as good foundations, you know, to run a business? And what did you learn? What were some of the learnings that potentially you might have been able to apply to your business uh principles? Um, yeah, definitely about serving people.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Um it's actually one of the reasons why we purposely put solutions in the company name is a lot of our yeah, other companies are protection or prevention, which is great, but we're really want to provide solutions for clients. Yeah. Um because I'm feeling that like my opinion is there's a lot of assumptions and a lot of um people who aren't actually educated in what their requirements are. No fault for their owning. Um so I really wanted to provide that one-stop shop, and some of their clients and you know people can come to and say, I've got got this issue, or can you just look after it? I don't you know, so I don't have to worry about it. And they can focus on their business and yeah, it's come through from yeah, yes, serving people, serving the community. And it's the same sort of thing like with volunteer firing. Fiery um that people don't just ring triple A the emergency number just to say g'day. They're actually ringing because they're in the worst time of their life and they want help. So that's why we yeah, it's why we respect what we got.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, absolutely. And and I I guess the prevention is far better than having a fire, certainly in the in a business uh context. And so a lot of the work no doubt would be compliance related. There must be a whole bunch of um ticking of boxes. I I I feel like that'd be certainly people coming to you with the, you know, just trying to make sure everything's compliant. Is that is that a fair say, or are are some people more proactive than just ticking a few boxes?

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah, um, we get a uh quite a large variety. Um it's some do seek because there's no I'm not sure like outgoing value, well, they can't you know turn it into a a profit, it's like a bill for them. Um it's something that they need to ensure that their buildings are safe and compliant, so they're employees and everyone can work safely and focus on their job, and it's one of those things that you hopefully never ever have to use, whether it being a fire extinguisher or a hose reel or a sprinkler system. But if that does need to be used, you want the comfort and confidence to know that all the systems are going to work um correctly and as designed, um, to allow time for the fire brigade to turn up and do what they need to do. And yeah, that you know, number number one priority is you know preservation of life. So need to always make sure that their people are safe.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah, absolutely. And it's a whole different paradigm for for the most part. Businesses are thinking about how do we produce a profit, and this is obviously an expense. Um, so it's kind of not necessarily on the radar all the all of the time, and um, you know, but incredibly important. Uh obviously human life is the priority. Um also, you know, your asset in terms of uh assets within the within the um building and and so on as well as secondary, of course, but um there's so much uh value in it, but these uh the the perceived value may be not not so high when it feels as though it's just a necessary expense. Um do you find uh the does that kind of make selling it tricky or what do you what's the process for you when someone when when someone makes an inquiry? How do you feel that uh the sales process goes?

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Um I think it's about explaining why um people need to you know meet these compliance obligations and it's you know not many people understand your an annual central safety measures report or what insurance companies actually require. So you know insurance companies will cover you know the company in case something does happen. So quite often the first thing that insurance companies will ask for is okay, show us all your um your maintenance records that you've done to ensure that your your site's safe.

unknown 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

So usually the first people they come to is the fight maintenance company to say show us your your testing records. Um but it's just about being completely transparent and honest up front with your clients and this is what we do and this is why we do it. Um a lot of people know what they what we gotta do, but they don't know why we're actually doing it. And some of the testing can be quite simple and straightforward, to be honest, but the consequences of it not working can be catastrophic.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

So that makes a whole lot of sense. And I suppose the um you said something interesting on your website that you said that you're the quiet force behind the fire safety, which is a really interesting concept of I suppose is that where did that come from? Is that more of a is that kind of a personal personality trait of yourself being a quiet person? I'm making a uh a judgment, you know, just a guess, um not knowing you all that well. It was it seemed like a really interesting positioning statement for your company and brand, and I thought it was really, you know, because you've got to be your authentic self. Where did that sort of thinking come from? The quiet force behind fire safety.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

I am a bit of an introverted person, yeah, um, but the fire industry is something I'm extremely passionate about. Um I could talk about the fire industry all day to be honest. Um so it's about not it's about just showing the facts and this is why we're doing it. Like we're not we're not here to we're not just like a sales team or promoting, we're just look, this is what you need to do, and this is what the Australian standards say, what like what we need to do and how frequent and why and you know insurance companies and you know auditors that they're looking for this sort of thing, so you can stay open as a business, and that so yeah, it's about we're very confident um in what we do and why we do it. So yeah, it's it's about removing all the fluff around the industry.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Yeah, um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

So I I love it, I love the way you've positioned that because it makes a whole lot of sense for you for the business model that you're in, um, the compliance and the safety and the um reliability, um, the quality assurance, all of all of these things are just incredibly important. And I just love the positioning and I and the way in which um it reflects your own personal values and convictions. Obviously, you're a community person doing um service for the community as a volunteer firefighter and all of those things that it sort of echoes. I think a company brand will should uh reflect the values and convictions of a personal brand. The the founder of a founder-led business should um be aligned to the founder's values and convictions. I I thought that was really powerful. I mean, flamboyant people should promote flamboyantly and do marketing and do a whole bunch of things. Um you've got to be true and authentic to who you are, which I thought was really powerful. Another interesting thing I noticed having read through some of your website and your material online, it might have been on your LinkedIn actually. You started in 2020. That was a crazy time to do anything. How did that come about? Why'd you decide to start a business? Uh everyone knows what happened about that about that time.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Yeah, it was um, yeah, it's it was really quite interesting actually. Um, where I was working, I was working, you know, for another a fire company at the time and um as a fire services manager, and yeah, there was a few things happening I wasn't overly you know happy with and um myself you know was sitting down with my partner Melanie, who's also the other director in the business. Um she's a um strong finance background, which has worked out perfectly for us as a business. Um yeah, we're sitting on the couch one night and she said, Oh, did you realise we've got six months worth of savings? Like, you know, and she has it, we're in a good spot. And I said, Oh, why don't we just start our own business? Like, give it a go. You know, I don't want to be 80 and sitting back and reflecting and saying, I wish I had done that, I wish I had done that. And um, she said, Oh, if you're gonna do it, now's the right time to do it. So we just had our second job, so yeah, she was brand new and the start of COVID and got through that, so yeah, we're an essential service, um, we could still work.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

Um, so yeah, that night I wrote my resignation letter and yeah, met with the owner the day after and said, look, this is what I'm doing and this is why. And yeah, they were very supportive and um yeah, gave it a crack. And yeah, once we started, I put a just a post on LinkedIn just to say, hey, um, just say, you know, I've kind of had my own. This is what I'm doing, if you need anything, and let me know, and it's yeah, just kind of started from there. Um and blew up. So yeah, no, it's gone, yeah, really happy, really enjoying it.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Well, it's such a brilliant thing. So, I mean, you and your partner felt the you had the financial backing, you had a bit of savings. So obviously, when you start a business, maybe the the income isn't um uh totally secure just yet. You don't even know which clients are going to come on board just yet, but you know eventually, will you hope eventually things build and and that that's an interesting thing, but you're also having a a child, so that's not perfect timing by any means. And I don't think there's any I've I've spoken to heaps of people about how they started their business, and the timing was never perfect, I I think. Um you get some things aligned, um, but you've got to you've got to get started, you've got to make that decision at some point. If it's a passion and something you want to do, you've got to figure out a way to just get started. And I applaud you for starting in COVID times where everyone is stressed, you know, um, all sorts of things. But it obviously is an essential service, you know, people people needed it so you could press on. But it must have been scary still. We was Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. What were your biggest fears, I suppose, in in the first instance?

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Um I'm not not so much f fear, but it was just the um unsurety of like the recurring work. Like I had a bit of a plan of what I wanted to do. Yeah. Um, like with the savings, we thought, right, we started in October and thought, right, we can just do eight hop jobs, like, but our savings will end in April. So I had to make sure we're fully up and going by April. Um, but so we worked out what wages we had to cover, you know, to ensure we could survive. And I think that only lasted the first two, three weeks. We're working. Right. I worked out three days on the tools, a day in the office. Great, three-day weekends. Let's go down to the local cafe and have coffee and go for breakfast and stuff like that. And I think from about week two or week three, we're going five, six days a week. And wow. Um during, as you know, during COVID times, you needed a I'm on the Mornington Peninsula, so we needed a passport to go from Mornington Peninsula to down to the Ballerine Peninsula the other side of the bay, you're like just to travel 40 kilometers, you needed a passport.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

So yeah, those those that don't know, we uh those because we've got uh a global audience, those today uh uh here in Victoria, it's probably the one of the most locked down cities in those times, and we had what was called a ring of steel. So you couldn't you couldn't leak um you know the um metro Melbourne to go um places. Uh one of the balance. So we were considered country regional, yet I think Mornington was it's kind of the similar kind of scale of size and everything. But you were considered metro, so you had worse uh lockdowns than we did, which is uh just a think about.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Um learnt though from starting was people reached out to me that I'd worked with, you know, say 10 years prior or 15 years prior. Yeah, and they said, Look, we'd loved working with you, but here's a job, we want to see you succeed. And it was all about never like and it's one of the things I was extremely grateful for was never burning bridges, never letting frustrations get into the way of what you're trying to do when you're trying to work, and for those people to reach out and say, Hey, I remembered you, um, here's a job, and like, all right, let me quote for it. They're like, No, no, no, we actually trust you already. Yeah. So it was all those years of working with clients as a technician, um and being, you know, just being transparent to be honest, is probably the best the best way to do it, to describe it, and and it worked.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yeah. Well, this show a massive portion, obviously, built trust are chosen. So trust is a massive aspect, and the easiest way to build trust is be trustworthy, which obviously you'd got credits in the bank for years and years. And whilst at that time you were you're building those trustworthy relationships because you were doing the right thing, and even if uh moments were frustrating and things were challenging, you didn't you didn't have any outbursts taken out on the clients and they appreciated it. They probably realized there was, you know, every st every business has its challenges, but they probably realized you manage these things really well. Um and then it pay off dividends, obviously, when you launch the business. Did you so that was a massive source of um business for you? You know, the other mechanisms that brought uh leads through the door. Maybe did your um volunteer work with the um firefighting, did that open any doors as well?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

No, not so much opened any doors, but it provided confidence to the clients that um I did you know did get to build relationships with, um, providing confidence that I knew what I was talking about. Um, because yeah, before I quote any site, I'll actually go to site and have a look at it before I provide any quoting or reports. Um so then having confidence that yes, I understand the tradey side, but I also understand the other side of the fence as well from emergency services. Okay, this is what we're doing, and this is what the fire we're going to be looking for when they get to site. So I had the you know, and I've also you know I spent a few years as a facilities manager, so I kind of knew the red tape that goes around being a facilities manager.

unknown 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

They they need to become experts and masters in every different aspect of a building, so mechanical, fire, you know, lifts, doors, all that sort of thing. So it gave them confidence. I could give them that whole rounded um solution um to you know to why we do things.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah. That deep level of knowledge of what it actually looks like if things aren't done right, I suppose, or or things that recover quickly i if in case of you know emergency, you know, to see the outcomes, I suppose a lot of um people working in the trade probably you don't have don't see the what goes wrong when things aren't done the right way and so on, to to have that deep level of knowledge is obviously powerful. Uh but you you wouldn't have started doing the firefighting for that reason. It's just the the benefit of of of being really um, you know, investing if we into the the community and and service, acts of service, which is which is awesome. Um the way I see it as well these days, and obviously we do marketing and uh on you know online to a large degree websites, optimization, all that kind of stuff. But with the rise of AI, it feels as though uh for me there's a lack of trust uh in many fields. So we don't trust what we read because it's AI written half the time, or more than half the time, probably. And we don't even know if anyone's even checked it. We don't trust the images we see anymore. We don't trust the videos we we've seen, you know, exciting videos of people of long past that um we don't trust them because we know they're not real. But that um creates a an erosion of trust. So I think the way forward in marketing is to to um build trust authentically, like what you're doing, but then to um um syndicate that message and trustworthy signals far and wide online, um, you know, broadcast what you're doing so other people can um can see it. So you've taken your business um to be a Victorian-wide company, so you wouldn't have had necessarily relationships Victoria-wide. How do you how did you go about building it out so it's not just your local region where you'd served people historically? How did you how do you extend further than your you know your location?

SPEAKER_04 19:58

It's something I'm very grateful for. Um we've never had to advertise or market um or cold call. Everything's been through word of mouth. So um it's been a case of this building, someone's reached out, hey, does anyone know a fire company? Yep, we recommend you know Marf and Virtue Fire, then and it just it just grows from there. So um yeah, I'm extremely grateful for that. But just to the to the fact that, yeah, because I know fire systems, I don't know sales. Yeah, it's just yeah, very much look the clients that we work with, it's about building the relationship with them. Um and I I say to all the clients, I said, look, yes, you've engaged us, so technically you're our client, but we we need to work with each other, not I don't work for you or anything like that. It's between the two of us, we need to ensure that your buildings are safe and compliant, so we need to work with each other, not for each other. Um so building the partnership, and I think that's helped build that trust um with the clients, and then they've been able to say, Hey, hey, I recommend this company, I recommend that company. Um and that's how we that's how we've grown. Um clients they've got, all right, we'll start you in this building. If you do well, I've got another five buildings here for you. And then by the end of that you know, term, then they go, All right, yeah, here you go, here's another five buildings, or you know, here's another four buildings, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah. That makes a whole lot of sense. And I suppose it it's it's it's still marketing, but not in the sense that you're actively pushing through you know social media or any other channel, but you're you're building a solid reputation as a as a brand that's um being referred. So you've got to produce a Obviously, great outcome for your existing clients, so they will tell other people about that. So it's a strongly brand-led company, which is based on values, convictions, doing the right thing all of the time and and building solid relationships. Obviously, all the best work comes from referrals, in my view, because um you're leveraging leveraging the trust of somebody else to a large degree. So if you know that middle person is doing the referral, there's an element of trust with that person and you're leveraging that. So you've really got to look look after people um as well, based on that. With the with the chosen piece of the show, so obviously we've spoken a fair bit about it already, just um with the trust signals and um getting referrals and so on. What are some of the things when someone reaches out, they say, hey, Jimmy referred me to he suggested I give you a call, we need X, Y, Z. Are they are they saying are they giving you any insights to the types of things um the referrer has said about you? Um because that would be really interesting. Um do you get any insights about what they said specifically that um prompted them to call?

SPEAKER_04 23:11

No, it's actually a really good point. I've never actually asked that question. Um I've always just said, yep, no way, and knowing the person has referred me, it kind of gives you a bit of um bit of a spring in your step, a bit of motivation to go there and prove why they recommended you. Um but not actually I've never actually asked that question, but I'll always um at the end of the site visit or the inspection or the meeting, I'll always call the person who recommended and just thank them. Um to say, hey, I've just been to this site. They said that you know you know, just want to say thanks for the referral, and you know, if it works out, great. Um but if it doesn't, yeah, I'll still thank you for the you know for giving me the shot.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, that's brilliant. It's so important to do that. You know, you've probably got a few referral partners that have um partners that not in terms of any um you know contract or anything like that, but uh just a relational thing. Um some people are just natural referrers, they're looking out for other people and they'll talk about you. Did you have you found that there's just just a handful of really great referrals who keep sending work, or is it like really broad people sending sending work?

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Um yeah, you've got your core clients, I suppose I suppose they're um yeah, that you've that I've built relationships with over you know sin you know since 2020 and some even before that. Um that yeah, I trust and they and that they trust me. And yeah, they'll whenever they're doing a networking event or if someone says someone's dealing with an issue and they get the phone call, you know, the the automatic automatically first thought is is myself. Yeah. So yeah, it's worked out. Yeah, really, yeah, really, really well. Just um, but then there's some clients who you may have just done one job for, and then you know six months later, they're like, Oh, you know, this person recommended you, and like, oh haven't spoken to them for a long time, only did a one-off job for them, so yeah, yeah, you kind of you start that communication up again, you just give them a call and say, Oh, hey, thanks for that. Um, yeah, if there's anything else you need, let us know.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah. Yeah, that's so brilliant. I've I've found the exact same thing. I mean, referrals are a fantastic source of business. Um, for me, there's just been a handful of really wonderful referrals. There, particularly starting out, there was this one lady, uh, quite an she was an older lady, she was near retirement at by the time I was working with her. But for whatever reason, she took a liking to me and and just sent me so many um opportunities, you know. So I think it all started from just giving her some insights for free insights into what she could do. And uh, you know, from there she just valued the thing. So sometimes the the work you do, which feels as though it's small, has the potential to grow into something massive when you know that relationship is formed. Um and it sounds as though that's kind of how you sometimes the smaller jobs lead to bigger jobs, and um maybe it's um you know, you you go and do a a small job and then they refer you to someone who has a suite of buildings who all need stuff done.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Is that kind of exactly and it I mean it's not even as much as doing a job for them where there's a dollar value in it, it's yeah, someone calling you and just asking, Oh hey, can you help me out with this? Or if I send you an email, can you look over this and let me know if I'm on the right track? And you know, that one conversation, you know, it may take you one or two hours of your time, but then 12 months later they're going, Oh hey, we're going to tender, we want you to tender for it, or hey, here's here's another job. So you never know what's around the corner. So and having worked with people, you know, 15-20 years prior to you know me starting the business, there's something that's always in my forefront is just try and help someone. Like yeah, they're in they're reaching out to you because they they want help, they need help. So um don't burn any bridges, don't get angry, and just yeah, and just really help people, and then you you never know what's going to happen six months, twelve months, five years down the track.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I love the phrase don't burn any don't burn any bridges, that's kind of suitable for what you do, isn't it? And I noticed Yeah, go on, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah, so it's it's not necessarily yeah doing a job for someone, it's just just helping them when they can, just answering the phone. Yes, our you know our technicians' hours, you know, were 7 a.m. to 3 30 p.m. But if someone rings at you know 4 35, even like 8 o'clock at night to say, hey, can you help? You're like, yeah, answer the phone. Yeah. Just help out what you can. It's the feelings that they remember, not you know, what you actually did for them sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

And so you've got a bit of a team with you um doing the work?

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Yeah, yeah. So we're we're a team of 13. Um, so I've got yeah, a team of electricians, a team of sprinkler fitters, um, a couple of them were also dual trade, so they're plumbers as well. Um having recently engaged a draftsman full-time to follow the evacuation plans and block plans that are needed. Um so yeah, and we're we're constantly growing. Um for the first two years, it was just myself and partner Melanie. So I was on the tools full-time and then working in the office full-time and yeah, and I was using a a suite of subcontractors to help the other side um any gaps in the business, and then yeah, got to the point where you know what we've got enough work, let's start employing. So it's only been the last three and a bit years we've started employing people, yeah. Um and it's worked out yeah, really, really well, and it's about training training the employees to how you think as well, and the attention to detail. Um because at at the moment, because we are only five years old, it's not so much Virtue Fire Solutions, it's more it's Mark Turnan. Um, it's you know the company's known by me, which I'm trying to start go through that transition at the moment. So the employees are representing myself and um you know as much as the company. So it's about yeah, training them up with the the way that we want to see things done and get them really engaged and onboarded with our values.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, and such such a values lab business is it's super important. Have you found it challenging to to firstly hire the right people who are kind of aligned or already aligned to some degree or at least trainable, teachable to to your way of doing things? Have you found that challenging? Or um yeah?

SPEAKER_04 30:20

Yeah, no, it ha it has has been a bit. Um it's but it's I'd rather that yes, having the qualifications important, but it's more about will they fit in? Will does their culture fit fit us? And they are the face of the company because they're the ones on site in front of the client. So it's about presentation, um, how well do they talk to people? Um communication is probably one of the biggest things that um probably one of the most important things that there is in industry. Um, and it's how you explain yourself and how you present yourself. Yeah. Um so yeah, I've been deliberately slow in hiring people to ensure to ensure they fit. Um, sometimes uh to the detriment where you know you're working some ridiculous hours to get through um what's needed, but ultimately you want to make sure you're hiring the right person for the longevity. Um, you know, I've had some of the employees already say, like, hey, I've got I've got a job for life now, I don't have to worry again. Um which is a really, really good feeling. Yeah. Um being able to help them grow as a person and you know and you know they're helping me being um yeah, getting the work done and being good at what they do.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah, and representing the brand really well. I I see you've got the for those just listening, you've got the uniform or the branded um hoodie as well. So do all the team get out there with the branding as well? Yeah. Yes, everyone, everyone's got a uniform.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

Yeah, and all our um all our vehicles are sign written.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So it's um yeah, that's all powerful marketing that yeah, you you mentioned you don't really do marketing, but that that's all really powerful brand-based marketing, um, which is super important for a business like yours, which is a reputation-based um awesome.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of and whenever I put on a new employee, like we're saying before about some trusted clients. One in particular, when I put on a new employee, I'll deliberately send them to this site and I'll give them a heads up saying, Hey, I'm sending you a new employee. Give me some honest feedback at the end of the day or the end of the job.

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Let me know what you think.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Um and that's worked out really well. Um then I can give you feedback to the technicians.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a smart way of doing it. Someone, I don't know who coined the phrase, but always said that you hire slow and you fire fast, which is an interesting way of thinking about it. But I suppose sometimes, you know, you're really careful and intentional about getting the right person to sometimes, you know, people present in a certain way, but then the the reality is they might not be as uh as refined, let's say, as uh in in in the real world. So have you found any challenges like that where you've had to fire people or not really?

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Yeah, um had to yeah, unfortunately let go of a couple. Um but it was a case of yeah, they just weren't it was more attitude-based.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Um that I it's not my like that whole phrase, which I absolutely hate, is I it's not my job. Like you're there doing the work that's needed to be done. Um and taking short, yeah, taking short. It's one of the biggest things I've struggled from training from defence force to you know, civil becoming a civilian was uh uh the whole she'll be right, mate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

I think it's um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Anyone who's worked in sort of government jobs or really large corporations where you don't have to step outside of your little world and have kind of got that attitude. But I think anyone who's worked in any form of smaller business realises you you just gotta chip in and do what it takes. Um, just clients as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Yeah, client says, Hey, while you're here, can you have a look at this for me? Like you should be saying, yep, sure. And if they can't do it because I don't have the right qualification or that's a bit over what they're comfortable with, just say, Look, yep, I can't do it, but I'll find I'll work it out and I'll get back to you.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. You're gonna you're gonna really look after those relationships and have team members who will do the same. My partner has a a uh a unit and um she had some work done on on her roof, and uh for whatever reason the the someone had to come back. The boss came back because something wasn't quite right, but he found uh that his um team had left a whole bunch of screws in the gutters, you know, just they'd removed a whole bunch of screws from the from the um roofing and and just let them sit in the gutter and he he was horrified. So um these sorts of little things, you know, super simple just to remove the screws and throw them in the in the garbage as opposed to just leaving in the gutter. The little things really count a whole lot. Absolutely, yeah. The things you can't see at the Yeah. You might not see it at the time, but it might not be revealed. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

So this has been a fantastic conversation. Is there anything kind of we I was playing by, which is always meaning it's a a um a great conversation, is there anything we haven't sort of covered off that you really want to make sure we cover off?

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Um one of the biggest key things that um within our industry that you know I've recently joined the um state committee for the fire protection association of Australia. Um and it's one of the biggest things I'd really like to start pushing is education um between like construction companies and then the maintenance companies, because there is a bit of a gap between people who are really good at knowing how to construct buildings and how to put all the systems and services in, but then they don't really have an understanding of what the ongoing maintenance requirements are, and vice and vice versa as well. And then you've got that added complexity of the fire brigade going and well saying well, this is what we want, and because there's so many different fire systems out there, and not every fire panel looks the same, so and it's about education with the emergency services as well, the fire brigade, to say, you know, to teach them how systems within their um assignment area or district how all that works, so then they've got confidence in the system operating, they they know how to operate it. And you're not left with the landlord saying, Well, especially after a new building's come out of the defect liability period, you know, the maintenance company may find a few issues, um, and then you have the landlord going, well, where do I go? Who do I who do I talk to? Is it a construction issue or is it a maintenance issue, or is it you know so it's about getting all the different stakeholders together and to try and remove any gaps? And then you've got the the auditors over the top of that and surveyors also, so it's about consistency and trying to get everyone to work together because we're all there to achieve the same outcome. But yeah, how do we work together more?

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah, well, that goes to your point earlier about um you know, in stressful scenarios, uh making sure you deal with people in the appropriate manner. I'm sure there's lots of scenarios where it's a little bit blurry whose fault or who's to blame, and everything it's it there's always the potential to um to cast blame to someone else, you know, uh if so many people are involved in a certain something. So um navigating those challenging scenarios is a real is a real um skill. And certainly something obviously you're doing really well.

SPEAKER_04 38:46

Yeah, it's also yeah, it's just a default mindset is who can obligate for this? Yeah. Well it's not about the it's not about the blame. It's okay, we've identified the issue. Now what do we do? How do we fix it?

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yeah, to your point for the business name, solutions, you know, you've got to find that solution in difficult times. Um, how do you move forward? Brilliant. Yeah. So how so obviously the the audience is is global, but a a fair chunk of them in Australia or in Victoria. How can people connect with you if if they're interested to do so?

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Um, probably the best way is through LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn a lot for communication. Um, actually a big fan of LinkedIn. Um and also um, yeah, through the website as well. Um any inquiries, questions, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

You feel free to start. And it sounds like you can just help people out if they've got a few questions, which is wonderful. Um, I'll put in the show notes links to your to your LinkedIn and and your website so people can find you nice and easy. Um it's been brilliant. Thanks so much, Mark. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

No, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

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