From Paperwork Chaos to Click-Click-Done for Contractors | Jo McClure

Most trades and construction businesses do not struggle because they lack work. They struggle because the admin, systems, compliance, reports, photos, invoices and follow-ups start swallowing the day.

In this episode of Built. Trusted. Chosen., I speak with Jo McClure from JM Virtual Business Services about how small to medium businesses can simplify their systems, reduce admin overload and make their software work for them rather than against them. We talk about field service management tools, Zoho, documentation, virtual admin support, AI, compliance, reputation and why good systems can help trades and construction businesses show up more reliably, get paid faster and protect trust with clients.

You’ll take away:

• Why your software should work for you, not force you to work around it
• How to choose a system your team can actually use on site
• Why documentation, photos, reports, invoices and payments should happen before you leave the job
• How good systems protect your reputation by helping you show up and follow through
• Where AI can help, and why it still needs human strategy, checks and approvals
• Why being chosen still comes down to trust, expertise and reputation

Jo McClure is from JM Virtual Business Services, helping small to medium businesses with systems, admin, operations and CRM support. Her team helps business owners choose, implement and manage practical systems that reduce overwhelm and make day-to-day operations easier. Find Jo here: https://www.jmvbs.au/

I’m Wes Towers from Uplift 360. I help trades, construction and industrial businesses be built, trusted and chosen online through high-performing websites and Search Everywhere Optimisation. Learn more at https://uplift360.com.au/

Want to be a guest on Built. Trusted. Chosen.? Book here: https://uplift360.com.au/built-trusted-chosen-podcast-guest-booking/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Built, Trusted, Chosen, the podcast for leaders and marketers in trades and construction. Hosted by Wiz Towers from Uplift 360.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Hello, Joe. It's uh fantastic to have you on the show and uh to introduce you to the audience, but maybe you could do that yourself. Tell us who you are, where you're from, what you're up to these days.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Great. Thanks, Wes. Thanks for having me. Um I'm Joe McClure from JM Virtual Business Services. Uh we help small to medium businesses um with their systems and their admin and their operations, essentially. So um, you know, we are a CRM specialist, so we help with the actual systems that you use, but we also provide services to help you um do the admin that you don't get time to do during the day.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah, and I can appreciate a massive challenge for for every business, really, but certainly for those that are, you know, on the tools, out and about on fear in the field. Um and I know I think we first uh connected, there was a project we we were working, potentially going to work on. Maybe we didn't do that project, but through Zoho. So I was curious to follow your your your journey from there. So Zoho's doing some pretty cool things in that side of things as well, I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Really is. Um, so you've got the basic Soho products, which um are fabulous. Zoho's been around for 40 years, um, and they just keep building and building and merging it all into one. So, you know, a single sign-on, single um license fee. But what they've done recently in the last two years is they've put together a service, uh a field man what's the words I'm trying to look for? Field service management.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Oh, field service management, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah. So for for construction, for cleaners, for builders, electricians, HVAC operators, you name it. Um, essentially, they've built a small system that can connect with the rest of the Zoho products if required, but this system's a standalone and it's really exciting. It takes maybe five hours maximum to set up, and you can literally hit the ground running with it within a week. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, yeah. A Zoho overall is a powerful uh system, and then just for those who maybe never have heard of it, it's a CRM and a whole bunch of other things. It's just a a suite of software um opportunities, and you can run your whole business through it um for the for the large part. But um, I I think the challenge with it I've seen over the years, so we build websites and sometimes integrate with these um platforms. And um the overwhelm is seems because you can do so much overall. I know you're you're talking that it can be standalone the FS. So but you once you start yeah, bringing other things in, people just get scared, and uh overwhelm just creates a lack of decision and and a lack of implementation. No one ever gets anything done. So um, I suppose that's where you come in, you help people uh get the stuff done, you get it often. Absolutely. Um get it working.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Um so we do we we we can also quieten it down, we can turn things off so you don't have to see everything. So, you know, people get overwhelmed not only mentally by oh, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, but also visually. And so what we've done over the last few years is we've specialized in just working out how to switch things off or hide things so that it just happens auto-magically in the background, but you don't have to see it, so you're not visually overloaded either. And I think that's super important, you know, because it's hard not to run a business without being bombarded with where do I click, what do I do? Um, and oh, it's just too hard, I'm not going to use it. You need to be able to go click, click, done, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah. Yeah, just hide away all that stuff you don't need and just focus on the things. It's it's true with um designing and building websites. We're just all so busy and rushed that things need to be clear, concise. Um, you need what you need when you need it. And certainly if you're out out on the field, um you know, you might be in a stuck in a uh roof or something, and um you know, you've got limited access to your phone and so on, and you know, you're not reading mountains of you know, navigating through a whole bunch of different things, you're just customized, tailored to exactly what you do. So building those sorts of systems out, how do you typically work in the initial phase with a new company?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Sure, not a problem. So, what we do is we have an initial discussion and we identify which product would be the most suitable and best fit for your business. We don't try and just because we're zoho partners, doesn't mean I'm gonna push Zoho on you. I'm partners with a whole lot of other systems as well. And there might be a better fit, or it might be a system that we're not even partners with, but we know and we know will fit your business because we want the system to work for you, not you work for the system. It, you know, that's the whole purpose of putting in a system, right? So we'll understand what you do and how you do it. Uh, we've had a lot of experience in trades and um different different service and field service businesses. So it it really helps with all that experience just tucked in the back, going, Oh, I can see it. I understand exactly how you operate. Yep. So we we get that understanding, and that might take half an hour or an hour to get that basic understanding. The we will then do a scoping. So that might take anywhere between two and four hours, and then from there we'll come up with a a document that will outline exactly what features you need, exactly what effort that will take, and and we can get a cost to you. Um it may even be simpler than that. It may be that it's a direct fit for exactly what you need. We might not even need to do scoping. We might show you what the system can do in that first half an hour or hour, and you might go, oh my god, that's it. That's the one. And that's great. When that happens, you instantly click and you go, right, okay, excellent. Well, this will take, you know, up to five hours to implement for you. You can be up and running by next week. And people love that. Love the fact that they don't have to do it firstly, it's just going to automatically be available for them to use the next week. And then we can build it out from there. We can phase it, you know, just get used to the basic out-of-box system with a few field changes to be named as you need them to be named or whatever. But basic system, get used to it. And we ask you, you know, go ahead, try and break it. You know, make sure that it does exactly what you need it to do. So we'll give that kind of time period up to a month. Um, and then we come back in and say, okay, you've documented what you really want it to do. Uh, it doesn't do this, you want it to do that. Or I've been doing this, this, and this. Is there a better way? Can we automate that? And that's where we'll go, okay, the next phase will be we'll spend five or ten hours and we'll do this, this, this, this, and this. And then your system's just working for you. Um it's been made super easy by Zoho because they understand with their hundreds of thousands of customers exactly what the general customer would need on average. So they've jam-packed it with everything, and we just have to know to turn down, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Yeah, what parts to use. And and so you mentioned other software as well. In the construction, building um trades type world, what what other ones are you kind of working with sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Sure. So um we work with Formatise, which is an Australian um product, I think. Um it's certainly got a Sydney-based headquarters. Um, so they're really easy to work with. Um, format formatized is great. Field Circus Management does all the bells and whistles, does everything. Um, can be a little bit finicky in some places, um, but that's where us as specialists come in. And then the other one that's kind of a leader in what we implement is Mira. And Mira is um a brainchild of a gentleman um from Kilmore uh in Victoria, and uh I know him, I know his development team. Um, it's a sensational product. And if it doesn't do what you need it to do, I can just give the founder and owner a call and say, hey, I've got someone who needs this, and they get it developed and done and in the system. So, you know, when you've got relationships like that, the customer can leverage from that, like, oh, it does all of the things I need except for this, this, and this. I'm like, okay, not a problem. If we can't make that happen already, let's make it happen. Um, and and those systems already have swims, they already have, you know, all of the the technical documentation that, you know, so for pest controllers, for example, they need all the chemical breakdowns, etc. etc. It's got all of that inbuilt into the systems already. So we don't have to reinvent the wheel for you. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah. Yeah, it's we're living in a an interesting time uh in the world right now with AI. And so there's so many options and alternatives, and if it depends on the nature of which AI you choose to play with, to ask questions, have a conversation with. Yes. They can sometimes tell you what you want to hear. So uh, you know, uh because we can't be exactly sure what to believe, I I suppose that's now is the time to lean on experts in the field who who have done it before, who've seen it um in different case studies and scenarios, um, different strengths and weaknesses of the various platforms. I suppose that's that's when it really matters. What what do you think are the biggest roadblocks in a trades business that software starts to help to um to unlock?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Um absolutely. So um documentation, legislative rules and regulations that mean you have to document, pre-build or whatever, you know, like certain steps, uh documentation, um, you know, making sure that photos are taken of what's been happening, what's happened on site pre, during, post, all that kind of thing. That can slow down a job extensively, and then you have to find somewhere to store those photos. Um, they have to be attached to reports. So reporting, uh, there's a most industries have to do reports, like for example, I'll go back to pest control because it's the easiest way to explain it, and the most recent implementation I've done. Um they take they have to do a diagram of where they've put bait baiting stations, then that diagram has to be attached to all of the chemicals that are used, and then all of that has to be bundled up and sent with an invoice, and obviously with the compliance, and then then they have to um have regular check-ins, I guess. So six, twelve months, whatever it is, depending on the the chemical compound or product or where it is. Um, so all of that documentation, all of that administrative stuff nowadays can be done on the right software, and it's a matter of click, click, click, send, and it sends all the documentation with the invoice. So that really slowed things down, but you can do that on your phone as well. So these products all have mobile apps, so you're not going home after a long day of being on site, doing all this stuff, then having to do all the paperwork, then sending it out, and then going, oh goodness, I haven't invoiced them, then going back and invoicing. So you can do that all while you're on site before you leave. In fact, you can even take payments on site. So they receive the report with all the documentation, the invoice, they click, they can tap, whatever they pay before you leave site. You go home, you spend the evening with the kids. It's easy.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah, that's it. That's so so important. I suppose because we're working with the same uh target market, the trades construction, there's just so much work that has to be done, and and to get that time back, it seems to be a massive, massive thing that everyone's striving to achieve. You start out start out in a business with high hopes and dreams that um you know soon you soon snowed under. You get the work that you desired, but yet um just snowed under trying to manage it all. So getting the right software in place is so important. And and just the record keeping, um, just uh, you know, it's so important. There's the legislation that you have to do certain things, but also for internally the the value of having great um rec records of what you've done. So if you need to do further works, um it's easier. Oh, just uh yesterday actually uh I was at mum's with um wanting to get the NBN through the through the old Telstra um pits. And so it's on a large, large-ish property with a with a long uh driveway, and so there were multiple points and they're hidden somewhere in the garden, and they're not where Telstra um said they were going to be. So certainly one wasn't one was there's multiple pits, one was found in the wrong spot, and that just suggested to us the other one would be in the wrong place as well. So, I mean that was done probably back in the 70s, I suppose, something something like that. But uh but to the point to have things recorded, because sometimes even in plans, um, when you get on site, things need to be somewhat different because of, you know, there's tree, a tree in the in the road, you know, plumbing might move slightly, and it's perfectly fine and legal and everything's fine, but if no one records it accurately, it becomes a hell of a job to plan it. So you're almost future-proofing yourself for the future works, it becomes easier for you to do the the ongoing whatever it might be as well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Um, it it can also save you on admin um like wages. So I've had a recent recently had an implementation that um basically the two admin people in the office could be reduced down to one, and then they were able to retrain that admin person and get them back on back out on on the tools, which was really great. You know, the person didn't like being in the office doing stuff, they wanted to be out on the tools, so yeah, it just enabled them to restructure themselves a little bit and give them that freedom that they had another person out doing revenue-earning stuff and and let the system do the hard yards and do the legwork so the admin burden wasn't big at all.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Yeah. And to you, does your team support? So we spoke about the initial um build out, uh, you know, selecting the software option, building it, customizing it. What level of support do you guys do um ongoingly to in the in the background?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Sure. So um when I first started, I started as a virtual assistant. Uh, so that's kind of our core as well. Um, so we have um an Australian-based virtual reception. We can answer your phones for you while you're out on the tools. Uh, we can answer questions, we can book people in, we can do all of that kind of thing. And they're speaking to a real human, not an AI person. And I'm down the the AI hole. I love AI, so so even I say I like to speak to a human on the phone. But we also have virtual assistants who are based in um Australia. So they're Australian, they're they know, they understand, you know, where you need to drive, where how you need to go, they understand the Australian Australian environment. So um we can be doing the admin for you. All my team know the um software solutions that we put in from the back end right through, so you can get um assistance not only with just setting something up, but then the ongoing assistance. So you might find because you put in a system, you suddenly grow. We can just step in and help you on an ad hoc basis, an hourly basis if you want, just a couple of hours a day, not a problem. We can do that. So because we know your business, we've set your system up, we can just jump in and and not have to be trained, not have to um ask too many questions. It it works really well.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah. No, that that's really valuable because I mean you you don't know what you don't know, so if you can just palm it off to an expert who does know. Um we just touched on something interesting. So the show is Built Trusted Chosen. So that it feels to me like trust is being eroded in a whole lot of ways due to AI. Um can't necessarily trust um what we read or see, and we don't know if it's real or or what. How do you see that play out in in your world? Is what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Um, so you know, I'm the first person to have cloned myself, my voice, half my videos out on the internet now are my clone Josie, and and I'm quite proud of it. So I'm absolutely um down that AI rabbit hole. Uh it they're a great tool when you ask it the right things and when you use the right AI for the right task. So there's a whole lot of different AIs out there, and if you don't know, then you'll just use ChatGPT or you'll just use Perplexity or whatever. You might just choose one, Claude, and just use it. But each have their own real strengths and they've been built for something specifically. Yeah, they're adding on other things like Claude have just added on a whole lot of like Cord code and all these other things that it can do, but they're basic um their basic things that they were built for are where their strengths lie. Um and so it's just knowing or just in engaging the right people who know which one to use for what task. I mean, if I'm gonna write a really, really kick-ass um email, I'm gonna use Claude, hands down. Um it's it's more, it it just sounds like me. Uh it's easy to train up as yourself, etc. Um, but if I want to do some deep research, I'll use perplexity. AI is great tools. I see the last four months have been like 50 years in technology. I call it dog ears because it has just so surpassed where we thought we could ever be. I'm doing things now that I tried to do in December and couldn't do. I'm now doing in AI, and it's just crazy. Um but I think going forward, more and more, people will use AI to run their businesses and all of the all the platforms out there, all of the systems that we are implementing, all have their own inbuilt AIs and and all that kind of thing. So it that's the way it's heading, that the AI will run the business, but it will still need human um thinking and human intervention and approvals at certain stages. And you'll have to um the only thing you'll have to do is just get on, like for a trade business or a field service management business, just get on with doing what you need to do. Your jobs are not going to be made redundant. It's the admin people who are going to have to know what to write in their prompts to get the best out of the AI. And it's going to be those skill sets, the strategy, the thinking behind the prompt, the okay, this this tool can do it, but I need to instruct it precisely and properly so that it does it correctly. And then it's having those fail-safe stops where you have to go in and double check and then say yes or no, that will then um enable it to move further. But yeah, the AI will run businesses from the back end, absolutely, with minimal intervention. And that's in the in the distant but not too distant future, depending on like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, and I suppose it's that's a great thing because most of well, the founder-led businesses they started because they love this the the trade or the skill that they bring to the table, not all the admin stuff. So if that can be somewhat automated um in a to a large degree, then it frees them up to do what they love to do. You know, get out on the tools, or if they enjoy the the client facing, you know, the the um sales side of things or the you know the meetings and so on, whatever they enjoy doing, they can do that human that human thing that only humans can do. As you said, you like to talk to a human, I I do as well. Especially if you're buying something of high perceived value, you always want to talk with someone before you're buying something cheap on T Mode, that you don't need to talk to anyone, but if you're buying a investing in a your your dream home, you're more than likely gonna want to talk to someone um before you make decisions. So yeah, and Direct Tech can free up your time to make. More human connections, I think that's the power of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Absolutely. And they can be so your operating system can be integrated into your website, can be integrated into your your finance system. You know, like it doesn't have to be a standalone thing. It can talk to all the other systems. So you just it's it it's made as it's so easy these days to make it easy for yourself. You don't have to do things the hard way these days.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah. Yeah, the old days of having multiple pieces of software and copy and pasting uh things from one to the other. And um just the potential for human error in all of that, or to forget to do things and um now it uh it's it's removing a lot of that potential error, but there's an another suite of errors and um that could occur um because it might come up with something not not not quite right. So you still need that expert um understanding and and guidance. And you know, there was that I think it was in the Australian case, that legal case, where there was a whole bunch of um fake uh you know examples or what have you in the in the evidence, and they realize hey, this is this is all just uh crunched out.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So I think that really highlighted the fact that you really do need to double check the sources. Um admittedly, AI has come a long way since then. I think that was probably about 12 months ago, but still, you know, make sure that it gives you links that say, you know, you can you can you reference links so you can check check the information it's providing you.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah. I know certainly with the content production from a uh optimization standpoint, so you know, creating content for Google and the like to to find. Um you know, some clients are doing it themselves, and and sometimes I just I just sometimes worry whether it's getting checked properly or not. Um because it's so quick and easy to punch out a thousand words and and publish it. And it might help with Google. Um and you know, uh, but yeah, you just gotta be so careful. There's uh other tools that automate the whole thing, so you just tell it your keywords, and it once a week or whatever you want it to be, once a day, maybe it'll publish an article on your behalf, and you think, wow, yeah, these are putting words into your into your mouth that that might create uh headaches eventually. But um I think so. Yeah, the new the new world of uh tech, it's it's keeping us on our toes. And certainly cool to watch you on social with uh what you're doing. Um and it just shows you're on the cutting edge of what's happening. So you know um, even if you're just experimenting with a few new things, it shows that you're on the cutting edge and understand what's going on. So you're probably a fair chance you're gonna know what will work for a for a uh another business. So um with the chosen piece, what do you think are the this is more from a marketing standpoint, more so than from the uh behind the scenes admin, so the client-facing stuff. What do you think it takes to get chosen in in this world where it's um so noisy? There's just so much information out there and marketing and everyone's got um a message out there. How how do you get chosen?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

How do you get chosen? But I think it's um just by being a trusted advisor. And I think reputation is is absolutely key. Um it's you you need to you need to know what you're talking about and under interrogation be able to answer the questions. So you were talking just before about how AI systems are punching out all of these and they can automatically upload them, etc. etc. If you get asked a question about something that AI has automatically done, how are you going to know how to answer? And I think it's the quickest way to rule someone out if they have no idea about what they're talking about or what they've published. So um I just think that you do the hard work. It's it's like in any trade, you do the hard work. Um, you know, you can I was watching TikTok this morning and the TikTok inspector came on and and he was pointing out and and quoting legislation and saying, this is not up to code, this is not up to code, this is not up to code, and this is why it's not up to code. If you if you can't say this is wrong, this is why it's wrong, then you won't be chosen. So I think it's just knowing your stuff, making the mistakes. I mean, the AI rabbit hole I've been down, I've made some some huge boo-boos, not not publicly, but you know, I've I've typed something in and the stuff that it's come back with, I've just gone, that's just not what I'm asking for. Creating photos and creating videos and all that kind of thing. You put something in, you think you've got your prompts right. They can they spit it spits out something really off track. Um, so I think it's it's about being able to be interrogated. Um, and I mean that in a nice way, like ask questions and actually provide solid answers that, you know, real life examples that no, this is what happens when you do that. Um, and I think that it's it comes down to trust. It still a hundred percent and and networking and and people referring you, um, you know, like it might be my next door neighbor referring me to one of their mates because they hear me on my Zoom calls or whatever, and they she sounds like she knows what she's talking about. That's you know, it's still it's that that personal recommendation that I've chosen this person because they really do know what they're talking about. Um, anyone can be an armchair expert, but you know, you've got to, when you ask the question, specific questions and how it might relate to somebody, that's when they'll choose you.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah. And it's that word of mouth thing, it it's happening even for particularly for trades business, for every business, but just to think of trades and construction. Everybody talks about who the good players are and who who's uh who might let you down. I did I just experienced it the other the other week in the car parking underneath here. Um there was some form of tradie talking to one of the um people from the building here, and um they were talking about who the good builders were in town. We're in Geelong. And so he was I was just listening in because it was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

I was going to the car and he was saying, Oh, this build is no good because of blah blah blah, and this one's a bit rip-off, and this one's that. Oh, these are the couple of good ones. That word of mouth is happening for every business, it's just that we don't know. Um, so we really want to uh amplify um we want to create a great reputation, firstly, so the right things are being said by the community because it is being things are being said about our businesses, so I think it's incredibly important to to gr create um those strong foundations in a business. Um and I suppose that's a big part of what can let down those foundations is um bad uh organization, bad management. So that's lean leans into what um good systems can do. So you you do um show up when you say you're going to because you've you've created a schedule that um is um achievable. Uh you know, you've you've set up uh things in the appropriate manner so everything gets done and the quality is is always there. So I think it's a great time for your kind of business and the advice you're giving. How how do people sort of find out more? I I know you mentioned you're in Australia. Is it purely Australian businesses you work with?

SPEAKER_01 30:06

We can work um with anyone. We're virtual, so my whole team, we work from our own homes. Um, so we can work anytime, anywhere, overnight. Like um, I've had a couple of clients in the States, so we've done overnight work for them. So for them, it's overnight. For us, it's just day work and it works out really well. Um so things like that. Um, but yeah, we're located uh not by design. Um I've got one person in um Sydney at the moment, and then the rest are in Victoria, but I do have um I have had staff in Western Australia and and elsewhere as well, South Australia. So, you know, I I have I can scale up and scale down. I'm very flexible. Um, and yeah, we can work in any state, doesn't matter if it's daylight savings or not, or any country.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah. And so the website would be the best place to find you, or what's the best yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

So www.jmvbs.au. That's the easiest way to find me.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, and no doubt you can find because I know you're quite active on social, so no doubt I'll find all the socials from the website. So I'll put the the um the website link and the social link in the in the show notes as well. This has been an amazing discussion. But before we wrap up, is there something that I should have asked you that I that I didn't and what would be the answer to that?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

No, I think we covered it all. Um it's just, I guess, you know, do you feel like you're drowning? Do you feel like you never see your family? If you do, then there's no shame in asking for help. And, you know, there are people out there that you can trust to help you and get you sorted really quickly. It doesn't have to be a big thing. You can just keep doing what you do on a daily basis and just keep working. So I think that the overwhelm is real, and you don't like everyone doesn't have to go down each and every rabbit hole and investigate. We there are people out there that can do all that stuff for you. And and yeah, just do it. Really?

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Sounds good, Joe. Thanks so much for being on the show.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Thank you for having me. It's been great.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Thanks for listening to Built, Trusted, Chosen. Brought to you by Uplift360. Visit Uplift360.com.au