How Smart Trade and Construction Owners Build for Exit, Margin and Freedom | Stefan Kazakis

Too many trades and construction businesses stay busy but never become truly valuable. They win work, carry the stress, manage every decision, and still end up with thin margins and a business that depends too heavily on the owner. 

In this episode of Built. Trusted. Chosen., I sit down with Stefan Kazakis to unpack what it really takes to grow a trade or construction business beyond survival mode. We talk about pricing discipline, building an A-grade team, creating an org chart that supports scale, and why the smartest owners build with exit in mind long before they ever plan to sell. This is a practical conversation for leaders who want more margin, more freedom, and a business that can stand on its own. 

You’ll take away:

• Why the skills that start a business are different from the skills needed to grow and scale it 
• How reviewing the gap between what you quoted and what delivery actually costs can transform margin 
• Why reliability, attention to detail, communication and integrity are the real foundations behind premium pricing 
• How to grow leaders in your team without relying only on money or tenure 
• Why loyalty does not automatically equal promotion, and how to avoid entitlement traps in leadership development 
• How the right org chart, scorecards and roles create leverage and reduce founder dependency 

Stefan Kazakis is the founder of Business Benchmark Group, a Melbourne-based growth and succession advisory that works with founder-led trade and construction businesses. Business Benchmark Group helps owners reduce founder dependency, build long-term enterprise value, and prepare their businesses for growth, succession and eventual exit. Links:

https://www.businessbenchmarkgroup.com.au/

https://au.linkedin.com/in/stefankazakis 

 I’m Wes Towers, founder of Uplift 360 and host of Built. Trusted. Chosen. I help trades and construction companies be built, trusted, and chosen online through high-performing websites and Search Everywhere Optimisation. https://uplift360.com.au/

Want to be a guest on Built. Trusted. Chosen.? Book here: https://uplift360.com.au/built-trusted-chosen-podcast-guest-booking/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Built, Trusted, Chosen. The podcast for leaders and marketers in trades and construction. Hosted by Wiz Tales from Uplift360.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

G'day everybody, and it's good to have I've been looking forward to this show for quite some time now. Uh trying to get Stefan is a busy man on the show. I've known him for probably 15 years or something like that. A long time anyway, when I was well, probably near 20 years, actually, Stefan. I I don't know. Um it was just when I was starting out in business, so probably 20 years that uh I've I've known of you and worked with you. And uh you're obviously the in my view, the leader in the in the space we play in in terms of business coaching. So maybe you could introduce yourself, tell tell the world who you are, what you're up to these days.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Oh look, uh that that's very kind of you, uh, Wes, calling me uh a leader in my space. Look, in all fairness, um it probably is 20 years ago. I mean, we um we commenced our business benchmark group journey um in 2005. So I I don't think it was too far long after that when we first met at uh at Richmond and we uh we did some work together, which was amazing. So uh needless to say, uh, you know, good things last the distance, as they say. But what we do at Business Benchmark Group, we work with uh founders of uh trades and construction-based businesses, typically businesses that are doing between $2 million and $10 million in revenue is when we meet them, and then we go on a journey and um typically our clients um stay with us for a very long time because we work on the exaplan pathway. We're not typically, I guess, engaged in in clients that have immediate problems and we need to almost band-aid it like an emergency room. We don't do that type of work. We typically um help our clients across Australia and New Zealand these days in in building what is a business that is at the crossroads of growth and scale, and more importantly, a business that can at some point be insulated by by people way better than the owner or the founder ever was, and uh more importantly attract an investor-level interest, which is where the fund really begins, where's and it typically takes about three to four years to get to that location in business as long as you're committed to identity shifts. So that's what we do, and uh we we run from Melbourne, we've got an amazing um headquarters here, and uh look, it's uh it's never a dull moment, let's just say that.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Oh man, it's uh crazy times are right now uh globally, obviously, and and these things will continue. But we've we've been through amazingly uh crazy and terrifying times and exciting times and all sorts of things that last, you know, uh five or so six years, whatever it is. Um, but these things are always bobbing up. There's always challenges, roadblocks, obstacles. That's part of uh running a business. Um I'm curious to know. So I I guess there's there's businesses who are uh just starting out and they're not at a level in which they're suited to to working with someone like you. What what is it that prevents a a business, keeps, keeps them too too small, um, and that they can't sort of grow or that maybe they don't want to grow sometimes?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Oh look, I mean the the the the important piece about uh look uh any anybody and most of us you know in small business, when you think about founder-led businesses, yours being being also the case, right? When you know that first million dollars in business is really tough. And it's really tough because you're hands-on in a way that uh is unforgiving. So you're typically um working on more tactical, foundational pieces, and it almost rhymes with a bit of survival when you think about it. Look, 7% of businesses in the world where trades and construction is not exempt to this, ever get to $2 million revenue in a year. So for us, we have a we have a motto at um at Business Benchmark Group, and and and you know, there's plenty of businesses that are at that you know second phase or third phase of business, as we call it. But a startup just has a very different need to what is a business that's just entering that early stage of maturity, which is typically that one and a half to two million dollar revenue or or five plus people on the team, full-time employees plus the owner. It's a very different set of um skills and tools needed at that point. If I can just say it succinctly, the skills and tools to start a business are very different to the skills and tools to grow and scale a business, and that's typically when we come in. So we've really chosen that point of the juncture, and um, it takes a significant pedigree as a leader or a founder to be uh really excited about growth and scale. And if you had a choice, whereas you can be a big business or you could be a rich business, and we are really clear about the clients we work with here, and it's about rich leverage and more importantly, success over just uh being busy.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, 100%. And I think that's so important with the changing dynamics. If you've got enough margin in there, you've got enough meat in a project. Well, if things go a little bit sideways, you you're not gonna you're not gonna sink. You know, we saw a a few years ago with the with the and still I suppose these days with with builders really struggling because there wasn't enough enough margin and the building materials blew out and then all of a sudden they're wearing massive um you know costs and uh not making a profit. So if you're not if you've not got enough meat in the in the project, um I suppose that's a big challenge. Do you see that a fair bit? People are just not charging correctly when they come on board with you, or as that look like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Oh, look, well that that is that is a fundamental issue for many of our clients, particularly in that first year, just really unwinding what is a uh a habit or a uh a lack of um pricing formula. So for many of us, we get to a certain stage in business, and and again, it's about feeding, feeding the uh the beast, the month in, month out, keeping the lights on, keeping our team employed, also putting some food on the table for ourselves as founder. But but that doesn't necessarily rhyme with you've got your pricing dynamics or your pricing formulas um set in stone. So for us, it's truly important um at Business Benchmark Group and and the message we have, whether you're a client or not a client, for us it's about how do we continue to educate um you know founders as to the importance of that anniversary point of reviewing and reflecting your pricing models. So whatever we're quoting on paper, because it all starts here, right? It all starts with how did I analyze or scope or or price the job, estimate the job, yeah, it's all the same thing. And then how we deliver it, you know, are we within one or two percentage points? Because everything started with a scope, everything started with an estimation where so you've always got something to review and reflect as long as you are investing just as much time after you start delivering. So I've quoted something, I've won that job, now I'm starting to deliver. How much time are you investing in review and reflect? What what did we quote? What's actually happening in delivery? Because the two those two goalposts is where the it's where all all all the all the all the success factors use. How we delivering how we're delivering.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah. Because if you if you're um if you're not measuring and reflecting, as you say, um you you might not be making the money. I suppose do you see this a little bit, particularly those early days clients where they thought one aspect of the business was where they were super profitable, but it turns out the this other piece of the puzzle was much better for them once they start drilling down and and and measuring things properly.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Well, it interestingly enough, we called our business the business benchmark group, not the business let's get busy or let's hope or wish group, right? So the the importance of you know the way the way you deliver your work, the way you sell your work, the way you promise the delivery, the way you communicate. So when you think about business, right? Business, it it's it's fairly simple as it relates to the one, two, three. So if you were to score your business out of 10, 10 being high, of course, on reliability, what would the score be out of 10? If you were to score your business in attention to detail, 10 being high, what would that score be? If you were to score your business on communication to the outside world, to your customer, to your suppliers, to your team, how would you rate your business out of 1010 being high in communication? And if you score your business out of 10, 10 being high in integrity, now if you could score seven out of ten on every one of those four elements, you don't have a pricing issue. Yeah. You don't have a pricing issue. So the whole the whole element of what business are we in, how do we ensure what we promise and what we deliver is close to each other? Now that also, like that's the words element of that um mindset. Then there's the numbers element, because words are good and your stories are great, but the numbers don't lie. So the way you quote, estimate, or procure, or or I guess um price and the way you deliver has to be in sync. So just going back to we see it all the time. Like sometimes it's even yeah, mature businesses at five million dollars, particularly construction, where we're sort of used to doing a certain pricing model. Now, our clients here, particularly after two, three, four years into what we do at Business Benchmark Group, their their average, their average margin is is mid-20s. Like we have clients right now where that are cost plus at 30% plus and are winning work hand over fist. They're never, you know, their work in progress is continuously at the edge of um some really good quality work. Now, that has zero to do with luck. That has to do with reputation and continual consistency and how we deliver on time and on budget. So when we understand that reliability and attention to detail, well, they're two obvious pieces that rhyme with price. Whereas we sometimes get a bit nervous and we're feeling it right now. Like if you be if you sort of take a snapshot of our current state, emotional, financial, spiritual, like the world we're in right now, global and local, there's a state of, you know, where we're feeling it's almost like going back, rewinding the clock five years ago, isn't it? Yeah, people are feeling a level of high emotion, instability, a little bit of okay, where are we as it relates to the crossroads in the world? And where are we as we relate to the crossroads of my business, my home, my environment? There's this sense of unease going on right now. So we're um we're on top of that. I mean, during the COVID years, we led our clients, and there was about 200, 300 clients that we led in Australia predominantly at that point, through a significant um unnecessary distraction to what was something that was empowerment. And it for many of our clients today, some of our Hall of Famers today, our business benchmark group, five-year plus clients, they absolutely had their kick up at that point where they didn't listen to the news, they didn't listen to their own voices in their head. They really got really deep about okay, what can I control versus what I can't control? Now, pricing is something you can control. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah, well, I think you can say no in business.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

One of the most important things you do in business is say no.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, to build that level of value where you're getting your ideal clients as opposed to feeling as though you have to say yes to every little project just to, you know, have some cash flow. Um, but I suppose uh uh a lot of what we're speaking about, it it's lends itself to the importance of team as well. Like the the uh your team members out there in the field, they're re representing your business and your brand, and everything they do um is being watched by somebody. So you know, your your your customers are seeing what they're up to, they're engaging with them. Um how much do you work with the the team kind of side of things with these businesses?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Oh look, most of the work we do at the at the early stages is definitely giving the founder, the owner, and their head, their their mindset. The I guess, you know, I'm yet to meet a bad businesswise, but I do meet interesting business owners uh daily and weekly. And and what I mean by that is they just get in the way. So you cannot you cannot run a successful business without having a team that's coming through. Like, you know, when it's all done and dusted, a misaligned team will deliver a misaligned service, a misaligned product, a misaligned promise, right? So it's vitally important that the flow from the leader to the team is is is aligned and high standards. I remember um the early days of I guess starting the journey of business advisory to trades and construction, this is 2005, of course. One thing that remained really clear for me is don't focus on the numbers, focus on standards. What are the standards that we want to be running here? So, in order to serve an A-grade customer who has an A-grade job that might be in a position to give you A-grade margin, you must have an A-grade supply chain, and you must have an A-grade team. Otherwise, you'll never serve the A-grade customer. Or if you do, you'll you'll mess it all up. It's misalight. So it is vitally important that the team is absolutely empowered and enabled to do the work. So the work we do starts with the empowerment, the enablement of the owner that's at two to five million, and and how do we not not just grow for growth's sake, but scale on the back of leverage. The number one area of leverage in a business is OPT, other people's time. That's called your team. So if I've got other people's time and I'm sort of restricting their genius, if I'm restricting their ability to take a risk, then the whole thing gets stuck there. Yeah. Where the owner needs to do the heavy lifting all the time, you know what I mean? So the team is a big part of what we do at stages later on in the journey.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, got it. And and so I suppose just thinking that through, so sometimes with with team members, some will lend themselves to a potential leader one day, and others are just happy to plot along and swing the tools, um, so to speak. So uh how do you go about identifying the the those, I guess, the cream of the crop who want to advance their careers further, as opposed to those who are just comfortable to to chip along, you know, day to day, do the work? And and we we all need those people who just do the tasks. They don't complain, they're just happy to do their do their time and and and get out of there. But the others who are really driven and motivated to become something bigger than what they currently are, how do you how do you kind of work those?

SPEAKER_02 15:30

So there's a couple of so there's a couple of guardrails on this one, and um, and it's vitally important that that the guardrails are respected. First guardrail is no judgment. I've seen enough in my journey over 30 years in small business and you know, businesses that have you know grown to 50, 70, 80 people, and others that have done an exceptional job at 10 people. So no judgment. Sometimes the guy that's the quietest and and the perceivably um I'm just happy doing what I'm doing, don't bother me, that ends up being the best leader, like truly. Really? And then there's the other partnel, so that's one extreme, no judgment. Yeah, as long as as a leader, it's 100% inclusion, that's your job, and then 100% involvement is their job. If you give them enough road, how involved they wish to be, or how much they want to up level their their current state is always on the beholder's uh um uh I guess some choice. It's the individual's choice. So sometimes when you meet um a business or you meet the team and the guy that was just happy, as you called it, just swinging, swinging the tools, well, that guy just needs a different conversation for their lights and their fire and their belly to light up, right? Yeah, yeah, just don't know, so no judgment. The second piece to this is no entitlement. Just because you're the longest serving team member or the one I've trusted since day one doesn't give you an entitlement to leadership. Yes. Because I can put a square keg in a round hole, that becomes uncomfortable for you. Now you feel the pressure of leadership, you don't like your job anymore, you don't know how to tell me because you feel I've done the right thing by you, you're letting me down, you end up leaving the business. So sometimes entitlement. Now that's one version of entitlement, just too, and then the other reason that then the other one of entitlement is well, I've been here the longest, I should be granted that position. Worst thing you can do. And there's plenty of examples, particularly with sport, that sort of uh describe this anecdote really well. So no judgment, no entitlement. So there's three parts to finding, and more importantly, discovering is probably a better word, um, leadership in your business. First things first, these are it's a three-part rule. First things first, a business that's going somewhere, and your team as individuals have an opportunity to contribute to that journey is one of the most important reasons why people join and stay on your team. So, as the leader, are you clear about your vision? Are you clear about what we stand for? Are you clear and absolutely aligned with your team, our standards? So a business going somewhere and everybody belongs and can contribute is the first reason why leaders come out of their shells in your team. Second reason, gratitude and appreciation. Catch them doing something good. Yeah, true. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

It's easy to highlight the so you can highlight the negative things all the time. And uh, and uh because you yeah, because you need to address negative things, but to catch them doing something good. How do you phrase that again? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, catch them doing something good, gratitude and appreciation. So if you think about reason number one and reason number two, how to grow leaders in your business, there's no money down, it's just a commitment by leadership to be really optimizing communication, which is where that empowerment and enablement, everybody gets the same opportunity. So if we can just resonate with that, and then the third most important reason why people stay with you or or or or they continue to grow with you is money. And yet we think money is the most important thing. So growing leaders in your business is nothing more, nothing less centered around communication. Now, I also I also believe I'm a huge advocate for the uh the motto of the Navy SEALs, US that is, right? So the Navy SEALs have an amazing motto, and and it goes like this if you want the most, make it easy. If you want the best, make it hard, which is why I always say, show me your standards, help me understand what we're not prepared to walk past, and I'll show you a business on the up, right? So that's how we grow leaders. You communicate standards, they live standards, they deliver standards, and everything else takes care of itself.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah. And I suppose there's a temptation to to elevate someone in your team, maybe that because they've been around a long time, just so you don't just so you don't lose them. That that that's the whole wrong motive, isn't it? To uh um you want to keep your eighth grade players, of course, but it they've they've got to earn their earn their position and the and their uh you know and their um higher levels.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Oh look, lo loyalty, yeah, lo loyalty goes a long way, but sometimes um loyalty doesn't equal promotion. Yeah. That's where we get it wrong. So there's the fundamentals like we have amazing um um clients who have done some amazing work with many of their long-term team players. Yeah. But it's been a stepped-out process, like going back to uni, if you think about it. It's like going back to playing football in the under 18s, you make the senior squad, you don't get an automatic gig, you don't get an automatic captaincy. You don't have to earn that by virtue of your communication, of your attitude, of how you how you show up. Five minutes early is five minutes late, if you know what I mean. And if we fail, we all bleed.

unknown 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Versus a handout asking for again, max the entitlement culture. So there's um there's fundamentals and it is and it is very much around attitude than it is around skill set, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah. And so do you um suggest people build out a like ahead of time to create their org chart and then start filling the roles? Or is it a little bit of, hey, I've got this great person, um, let's create a role around them. I don't know to get to the sporting analogy. Some hoodie coaches will speak of creating a game plan that suits their unique set of players. They're A-grade players that they want to shine. So they're thinking of it from that perspective, coming at it for people first and building a business around that. But the others will have really set structures. And the philosophy of that is if one man falls down, another one can come in and uh fulfill or woman can fulfill that role within the structure because everyone understands the structure. How much do you think that org chart should be set and how much fluidity would you keep in these sorts of things?

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Well, that's that that's the central piece to the work we do, and it's called the exit plan pathway. So you can achieve an exit plan in your business by virtue of growing people around you as the founder that ultimately do a better job than you. So you're not square bang in the middle doing everything. Now, that cannot be achieved unless you are really clear about roles, responsibilities, what success looks like, and the feedback loop that comes with what didn't happen that should have happened, what should have happened that didn't happen, what are we doing about that is nothing more, nothing less than a plan. So that plan overlays the org chart. So the exit plan pathway, which is what we do, this is why we take our $2 million or $5 million business owners and we go on a journey over the next three to five years. Like if you think about the drain man, if you think, think about traffic divergence groups, shadow plumbing, mimosa homes, these are all clients we have worked with for many, many, many years. Every one of them, every one of them were not a broken business when they knocked on our door and we leveraged over five, ten, fifteen years, in some cases, their ability to continuously regenerate the orc chart. So if you think about the orc chart, that is the most important system in your business. So great systems executed by good people end up being great people innovating great systems. That is the growth. That is the vacuum of growth and leverage. Now, the other thing to think about there, Wes, is there is no such thing as a business that doesn't have people, the right people in the right roles, right responsibilities, absolutely getting paid the right money, will always deliver the right results. But it's a feedback system, the scorecard, roles and responsibilities, KPI's critical drivers, numbers, which is your scorecard, those two things is the cornerstone of continued leverage. Right? So the orc chart is a fundamental piece once you come out of survival, which is the first one to two million dollars in business. The only thing that gets you to the next phase and the next phase after that is the look and feel and the evolution of your orc chart. I'll go one step further. So 70% of your people right now, let's say you've got 10 people on the team, seven out of ten of them, including you, are looking for what we would call a regeneration process. In other words, how do I continue to regenerate myself? Step up, level up. That's called regeneration. 30% of your people on your team right now are what we call in the deselection, in the deselection zone. In other words, I'm not really sure on the value. I think the business has gone past you. I'm not sure you're delivering on time and on budget or adding any value to the business, even if you are arms and legs, particularly in a in a time where technology and automation is far superseding people who have no care factor. So seven out of ten of your people are what we call are in the regeneration zone. In other words, you've got to keep on putting more time into them because they'll keep on leveling up. Empower, enable. 30% of your people, regardless of the size of your team, this is how it works. 30% of your people are in what we call the deselection zone. They're either leaving you or you need to get them to leave you. And more importantly, you need to also have a net news process in there. So 10% of your current team. So let's say you've got 10%, at least one person is coming in in the next six to twelve months that's going to lift the whole average up. So that's called your net news. Different to, I guess, you know, football teams or or soccer teams, you know, recruiting A-grade talent that just raises the bar again. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So the org chart's a big piece of work.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, yeah. What other pieces of the what are the big uh levers that you pull in as well? So we've spoken, you know, creating value so you can you can earn a higher margin and and those sorts of things, and the people that need to for facilitate that. Um in the org chart, the structures. What are come some of the other big levers that people can kind of pull and and get a great outcome?

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Well, well, I I I think one of the biggest, um, one of the greatest opportunities um we have, particularly in this part of the world, is the continual when you think about the competition in anything we do right here, right? And we'll talk about Australia more so, right? So you think about the population, it's not that big. The land is massive, the distances, transportation, then you think about HR legislation, then you think about tax legislation, you think about banking regulation. If you can succeed in Australia, you can succeed anywhere in the world. Like we have a handful of our clients that are exporting project management right now to the US, and they're running a $25 million business. We've also got um project management uh uh businesses exporting to uh Papua New Guinea. So if you think about those sort of opportunities, think about the world in in its, you know, forget about the the little speed up we're experiencing right now, which is just one of those things that you know you've got to work around that and see it through. It will it will finish at some point soon. Um it will be 2026 when Northeast thing is over at some point, but but in finishing, you've got to sleep past that. One thing about business, it never ends, no different to your adult life, unless you decide to end it, right? So you've got to keep on moving through. So in business, when you think about one of the biggest levers, is how do I ensure I can build a business that's gonna last 100 years? That's four generations, and have it at any time, Wes, at any time, attracting an investor-level interest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

So I love the idea of levers.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

If you think about the levers we want to be pulling here, so what is your niche? So when I say the drain man, what do you reckon the drain man over the last 17 years? He's been a client of ours. What do you reckon he's known for?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

It's brilliant niche, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah, he's cleaning the drains. Same as the grout guy. We uh I I needed some grouting done, so I just went to the grout guy because that's what he does. So uh isn't that interesting, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:53

So, what is the reputation that you are building? That is interestingly enough, and and yeah, you're all over this because you're in marketing, right? You know, what is the reputation that you're building? Business benchmark group, not business hopeful or wishful, or let me coach you and I'll read a book before I meet you because I really don't know what to say to you. You know, what is the reputation of success that you are building for your end user client? So when you think about building a business, the levers that we need to pull that rhyme with repeat business and referral business. Forget about what your specialty is. Are you building repeat and referral? Yeah. Because if you're delivering results to your customer and you can absolutely point the finger at this is what we promised, and this is what we're delivering. It's really close, right? That rhymes with a five-star Google review, a case study, a testimonial. So if I had $10 in my pocket wares, I would always invest $9.99 in making sure what did I promise, what am I delivering, is it as close and aligned as each other, which is the start of our conversation today, the pricing piece, the value piece, the reliability piece. That is a lever known as your customer journey. That is endless regeneration. Keep on focusing on are we delivering on time and on budget for the business? On time and on budget, and a little bit more than what we promised, and you build a business, it goes 100 years. I promise you you will. So look, during our discovery, um, our discovery calls, which is very much um an invitation to anyone that's hearing or listening to this, this uh this this this episode and they wish to reach out, the uh the discovery calls and mention Wes's name so you get through the traffic that we have sometimes uh for those reaching out for a no obligation, like literally it's a no obligation call. It goes for about 15 to 30 minutes, and we unpack some of this stuff. Where is the low-hanging fruit in your business right now to create a game-changing next five years? Like literally. Um, so so to me the lever of reputation, because it's reputation that creates retention, it's re it's results that creates retention, it's absolute being clear about your your ability to deliver on time and on budget in your chosen slither, your chosen niche, which ensures that you're building a business that can stand the test of time. 100 years.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, that's so brilliant. And I love the idea of uh building something for the exit in mind, even if you don't intend on selling right away. It's building all the foundations in place, um, so you've got resilience in in your business. So you've built in a way so you can even have a holiday, you know. You even if you want to keep a business for a long time, you can go away with your with your wife and family and whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Whereas the exit plan pathway, like literally, and and what you just you just said what we we know is the only way people think about it. No, no. The exit plan pathway, you get to choose on your terms what you're letting go of. What are you what are you exiting day to day, mate? You can you can run this business for the next 20 years, but do you really need to be doing everything? How do we elevate and optimize delegation? How do we elevate an optimization and optimize empowerment enablement to our team that are clear about how they get measured? So exiting is not just I'm out of here, I've sold. I mean, when you really think about it, when what it takes to get to a business, yeah, to build a business that's delivering predictable profit, when you think about what it takes to get there, why would you sell unless it's a seven to one, an eight to one, a nine to one? Like we've got three clients in due diligence right now that are all being corded for about thirty to forty million dollars each. And literally nine years ago, they couldn't rub three shekels to go to Jerusalem, right? Yeah. So when you think about this, it's it's it's build it as if you're gonna own it for 100 years and always have it ready to be attracting an investor-level acquisition. That's a five, six, seven to one, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah. Yeah, 100% encourage everyone listening to jump on and and take uh the opportunity for their what discovery call did you call it?

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Oh, yeah. So if you if you find that so they'll find it on our uh on our website, you can just click a button that says discovery call. If you actually click that button and say where's Lof's podcast, we'll uh will ensure we'll get you through the traffic on that uh on that particular um list of list of business owners. And again, it's no obligation. We have plenty of um plenty of people that um reach out and um they don't necessarily become clients, and that's okay. If we can if we can just add one percent, one thing that changes someone's trajectory in the right in the right manner, you don't need to be a client of ours. We're we're cool with that.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yeah, that's brilliant. And we we share a few clients, and uh I know your reputation is is outstanding. They all speak really well of you and and the outcomes they've achieved. Some of them have been with you a number of years, uh, some fairly new, but they all have the same stories to share. That it's a phenomenal experience, and they've got to do the work, but they get the outcomes and the results that that they're that they're looking for. So well done on on you and your team. I obviously I know you've got a a um substantial team now, and uh not like when you started, uh like all of us. We start out small and uh you've built out to something substantial now. So well done, Stefan.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Nah, thank you, Wes, and well done on the work you're doing. You're uh again, the the work that you and your team do is is fairly um high standard and noted and and respected um by us at Business Benchmark Group and uh keep on doing what you're doing. Thank you for the opportunity. Excellent. Thanks, Stefan.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

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